Million Dollar Electrician - Sale to Scale For Home Service Pros

S3 EP07 The Electrician’s Ad Blueprint: How to Create Unlimited Income (with Forrest Schwartz)

• Season 3 • Episode 7

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In this episode of The Million Dollar Electrician, Forrest Schwartz returns to break down the tactical side of running paid ads for electricians. Unlike previous high-level discussions, this episode dives deep into actionable strategies from understanding the difference between intent-based vs interrupt-based ads to building a high-converting Meta (Facebook) ads funnel.

Forrest outlines the full 3-stage ad campaign structure electricians can use to generate low-cost, high-quality leads for panel upgrades, including retargeting strategies and audience criteria. He also shares how Keil Electric is generating leads with a 10X return on ad spend.

If you're serious about scaling your service business and want predictable, profitable lead flow, this episode is a blueprint you can’t afford to miss!


💡 What You’ll Learn:

Why many electricians struggle with converting leads

What is the difference between intent vs. interrupt marketing

How to avoid fear-mongering while still educating homeowners

How to engineer high-converting ad funnels.

Why following up 10 times isn’t “pushy”, it’s professional.


⚡️Featured Guest: Forrest Schwartz, CoFounder and CEO of TopLineGrowth Focused on helping companies grow their top line revenue via digital marketing. 

🌐Book your complimentary call here: https://topline-growth.com/sle


🔗 Resources: ⚡️Take your electrical service business to the next level! Join the SLE Pro App Community! 


⚡️Podcast Powered by Duromax Generators. 

Making turnkey power solutions easy. 

📧 Email: jesse@duromaxpower.com 

🌐 Website: www.duromaxpower.com

📞 Call: 909-490-5789


⚡️Jump into the Million Dollar Electrician Community and connect with real business-minded sparkies!


⚡️If you are an electrician looking for trade-specific business training in pricing, options, sales, attraction, and marketing strategies, Then our Loop Method is your answer!


⚡️Learn how to serve and earn at the highest level. Contact us, we’d love to help!


#ElectricianMarketing #FacebookAdsForTrades #MillionDollarElectrician #ContractorLeads #ForrestSchwartz

SPEAKER_03:

Getting the leads was not that difficult. The booking them was the real challenge at first until I set the expectation with our dispatchers of hey, you're we gotta call these people 10 times and we gotta call them within five minutes. Because think about the window that someone has while they're scrolling. And as soon as that period is over, they're back to work. It's really important that we get there quickly and contact them. But if we do miss that window, then it's gonna take a lot of attempts till we can line up our schedules again. And so that's where the 10 attempts comes in. And I hear it all the time that on the ninth or 10th attempt, they'll be like, oh hey, Bethany, I've been trying to get in touch with you. Thanks for following up. They're happy about it because if you think about it, we just made their life easier.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Million Dollar Electrician Podcast, where we help home service pros like you supercharge your business and spark up those sales.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm Joseph Lucani, and together with my co-host Clay New Meyer, we're here to share the secrets that have helped electricians sell over a million dollars from a single service event.

SPEAKER_00:

Now it's time for sales. It's time for scale. It's time to become a million-dollar electrician.

SPEAKER_01:

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another great episode of The Million Dollar Electrician. We've got a great guest in Forrest Shorts back again. Forrest, welcome back to the show. Last time, Forrest got a bit into his story, how they're doing it, Kyle Electric. Then we had his partner Andy Kyle on the podcast. And we didn't really get to dive into too much ad stuff, Forrest. We learned a lot about the upper strategy, maybe that 30,000-foot view. But today I was hoping we could get technical, brother. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03:

I would love nothing more. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01:

We're in your uh in your ballpark, in your forest. Uh Joseph, how are you doing today, brother?

SPEAKER_02:

Feeling great, man. Thriving off the power of faith and caffeine. Got a list in front of me, but I'm ready to tackle it. Feeling blessed.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice. I'm gonna put you on the spot, Joe. Can I do that? I mean, go for it. What are you gonna do? All right. When when electrician starts talking ads in one of your classes, how does that make you feel?

SPEAKER_02:

It's never usually a great feeling because my specialty is I'm already in the home and I know how to sell it. But how do you get into the home is a realm outside of my expertise.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that, man. Great answer because that's what we want to dive into today. And it's a big part of the metrics that you guys should be tracking. So it's not um necessarily just meta ads, although that one's in the title. That's what we're gonna be working on today. But it's also there's some ads, just logic, some strategy in place here. I want to go through that um in in some detail today and make sure that you guys understand this at a level where you can make good ads and ads buying decisions and and decide, hey, is this something that's working for me or working against us right now? At least if if this hits right, then we can help you gain the confidence to know is my current market or agency serving me well? Do I understand the metrics and what they're putting in front of me so much that I could make decisions around my ads? Or is this something maybe I even want to tackle myself or do more of in-house? I think we could learn a lot of that from the discussion we talk about today. So, you guys ready to dive into this? I'm excited. Let's make it dab in. Awesome. Awesome. I think one of the topics we started with last time, but let's just tag on it again to get us rolling here, boys. This idea of like intent versus interrupt forest, and and what do we mean by that? Kind of help us explore that and and why both are important, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, the the easiest way I've boiled it down to is just the idea of have they decided to do the service or not. So with intent leads, they've already decided they're doing the service. They're trying to find someone to do it for them. You don't have to convince them to do it. Whereas interrupt is where they might be open to doing it, but they haven't been convinced yet. And so part of our journey when we're talking to those leads is we need to convince them that this is something worth taking care of versus just something that are in the back of their mind. They know they might need to take care of this, but they haven't decided to take action on it. I think that's the easiest way to distinct them is have they decided to do it or not.

SPEAKER_01:

So if we're in their shoes, like their activities, how would you describe the difference there from their perspective?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so intent is, you know, electrician near me or um breakers tripping, like them looking for someone to take care of a surface of a problem that they know they have and they're looking for a solution. It's a matter of who's going to do it for me. Whereas the interrupt is they might know they have a problem. They might not, you know, like some of these people with uh Zinsco or Federal Pacific panels, they might not even know that their panel is, you know, blacklisted and recalled and you know, a big issue. They might not even know this. So if we can educate them and teach them that this is a problem and insurance companies won't cover their house if they know they have it, like then we can get them to take action and do something about it.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Good explanation. Joe, feedback? Just let me in the house.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, the cool thing, yeah, I'm right there with you. Give me in the home, let me give me a door to knock on. But the thing I think is really cool is that when you're talking about educating the client, normally that's something where I'm like, oh, you know, don't educate too much in the beginning. But in your statement, it makes a lot of sense because if some I've gone to homes where customers don't even know they have a panel, they still call it the fuse box. So letting them know it's oh wait, it's not supposed to look like that. I've had this, it's been fine for the past 60 years. I've never had a breaker trip. Oh, yeah, you don't have breakers. Okay, that's something to solve here. So I think it's a really cool point that you are doing a little bit of education at that point.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think a lot of people are afraid to over-educate their customer and then have them either go somewhere else or not do it at all, try to do it themselves, maybe even. Right. What do you say to that person, Forrester? Do you encounter that often?

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, at this stage of the game, we're just trying to educate them about the problem that they may not know they're experiencing and what they stand to gain or to lose. Right. So if we're talking, go back to the Federal Pacific Zinsko panel, like if they don't even know that this is a problem to begin with, we're educating them about the risk of that. And then talking about the risk of what they have to lose is hey, there could be a fire and you could lose some of your possessions. So just educating them about that they have an issue to take care of is different than educating them about how we're going to go about fixing it. Right. We're just trying to get it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, sorry, say that again.

SPEAKER_03:

We're just trying to get them to the table at that point.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Just that awareness piece. Do you have an opinion personally on the difference between educating and scare tactics in the marketplace?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's a good one because uh I've struggled with that before of like you don't want to fear monger and try to scare people. But at the same time, you also need to motivate them to action. So again, just running with the same example of the Federal Pacific Zinsco panels. If we can show them that this is a risk and that they could have a fire and we save them from having that fire, isn't that something that's worth doing? So we don't want to fear monger and say, hey, your house is gonna burn down, but we also want to just say this is a risk that is out there if you don't get it taken care of. So it's a fine line, but fear is it is the biggest motivator and for for all humans. So if we can tap into that a little bit to get them to take an action that is going to benefit them, then I'm I'm less concerned about using that.

SPEAKER_01:

So if I'm hearing this right, and and my personal spin a little bit on this is like it's okay to use facts and educate people on things that maybe they should healthily fear. But maybe it's the embellishment or the positioning of that in a way that would make it seem like a bigger problem than it is. Maybe that's the fine line that we're talking about. Joe, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so normally I'm opposed to the over-education for exactly this reason. You know, I don't want to get into a home with a customer who thinks that we're trying to make them afraid. Really, I could see the gray area comes down is your angle and how you're presenting the information. Like you can say, does your panel look like this and have a picture of it and then describe these are the concerns that I see from it? And if you do, you can correct it before something happens. I see that as a cool thing. But if you had a picture of a panel and like an equal sign and a big fire next to it, I see that as a bad description. So it really just depends on here's the statement, but here's the correlation. And I think that correlation like junction is where we have to be very, very careful. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm gonna speak to uh Tony in the background. Hey, Tony, just cancel the ad with the panel on fire, please, and the homeowners scream the top of their lungs in the background. Just cancel that one. We're not gonna do that anymore. No, in all seriousness, I mean it makes sense to me. It's it's a tough and fine line to walk, and it's a tough topic to even discuss. But I wanted to address it just because if anyone's watching this, I mean they're gonna have that question too. Some guys go completely against it. And then there's a lot of service providers that love to lead with that 10-point inspection and and actually point out and draw it in a red box, right? And show, oh, red is bad, yellow is caution, green is good, and then point that out in that way. But that really is kind of it's the same thing. We're trying to communicate what's acceptable and what isn't. I I think our intention for SLE is always and always will be to hold a higher level of standard for that communication. How can we communicate that simply in a way that doesn't make you afraid in a sense of, hey, crap, uh, I'm running, sprinting away from this. These guys are pushing me into some stuff that makes me uncomfortable and makes me want to call other people to test it, but rather can we communicate this in a way that we build some trust here? And you actually call us to talk about it more. I think that's the difference.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. The thing that I want to jump in on that is I feel the relevance is really the difference of whether someone feels pushed or not. Because of like if I'm in a room and you're asking me to look at the kitchen countertop and I notice there's no smoke detector nearby, I walked past it and it wasn't where it was supposed to be, I can see that being very justified. And at the other time, I could see where some people do their 10-point inspections, they're outside checking the pool grounding when it's completely not connected to the thing they were called for. So as long as we can stay relevant and have a, hey, I'm doing this because you showed me this, I walked past it, I saw it. Was it wrong of me to bring it to your attention? Is a much stronger platform to go through than, hey, we're just gonna do a whole home inspection regardless of what you asked for.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Forrest, your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so going back to kind of the um using the fear and and presenting some of the risks, I think the the more we can just state the facts, stick to the truth, and just say this is a known risk. If you are have this and this risk is present for you, here is something to consider. I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm not saying it will happen, just stating that this is the risk that's apparent. And if you want to do something about it, we can help. The more we can do that, I think the the uh the better we're gonna be received.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. Fair enough. Fair enough. So back to uh ads and what you guys are doing currently at Kyle Electric. Well, what kind of ads do you guys currently run for us?

SPEAKER_03:

Our top two sources right now are um the LSA ads, Google Local Services. That's that's our number one by far. I think we get a little bit over 100 leads a month from that source. And then um Facebook is probably number two. We run uh meta ads, and then we do get some with SEO, um, but just kind of come in organically. That's a little bit trickier to um to track, but yeah as a as a number, those are our top top three.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, sweet. What do you recommend first for someone just getting in the ads game? What's the starting place for most?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so going back to our initial opening question about intent versus interruption, I always recommend people max out their intent side before they move into the interruption side. Uh, because again, you don't have to convince them. They're looking for the service, they're asking for it. It's an easier close, quicker sales cycle. You don't have to try to convince them along the way, they're ready to go. And so I always recommend maxing that side out before you switch over to the interrupt.

SPEAKER_01:

Makes sense. Have you or did you encounter kind of a limit to that intent side at first, or was it enough leads for you guys right off the bat?

SPEAKER_03:

No, it was a bit of a struggle at first. Um, it took a little while. I've noticed a huge or a very strong correlation of reviews and number of leads for LSA. So the people who are less than 50 reviews, they trickle in here and there. They don't get a ton. But as soon as you get over 100, or you know, we're almost at 200 now, it starts to be more of like how many you want. So we spend probably five, six grand a month, and we could probably go more. Um, it's just a matter of what we can handle for our sales guys. So once you start breaking into it and you get some momentum with it, because that's the other thing, is they're in a way, they're taking a chance on you by referring you out. And so the more you've proven and shown that you're a good steward of these leads, you book them, the customers are happy, the more they're gonna send you. Just like if you had a plumber that you were sending leads to, the first you're not gonna send them all the leads on day one. You might send them one or two, test him out, see if he calls them, see if they have a good experience. And then once he's done 10 of them, be like, all right, this guy's awesome. I'm just gonna keep sending it to him.

SPEAKER_02:

Makes a ton of sense. I love that. It's almost like trust is the number one currency in every industry, whether you're in marketing, whether you're in service, whether you're in sales. They need to trust us just as much as we can trust them. And they need to know that we can take care of their people. I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, for sure. So reputation is super important, then obviously, to build that trust. And to me, I mean, it makes perfect sense. We probably touched on this before, too, how important those reviews are. Still, I don't think enough people really take full advantage of this. How important do you feel it is to really get like a hundred percent reviews as much as possible, like close to a hundred percent as possible?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I would look at it like imagine if you're you know, if you've ever had a car stall out and it's in neutral and you got to push it. Think about reviews as the angle of pushing that car. If you have no reviews, it's like pushing it uphill. If you have a couple reviews, it's like neutral, like flat, like it's still pretty heavy, but you can get it going. And if you got a bunch of reviews, you're going downhill. And now you're you're in that's just trying to stop it with the brakes. But the more reviews you have, the the easier of a time you're gonna have to get your marketing going.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a cool way to look at it. I like that. Some people listening to this right now are saying, Well, you didn't mention PPC. Why is that?

SPEAKER_03:

PPC has its place. Um, we're actually about to break into doing some of that um just because we want to get more of the demand calls, uh, because we're getting a lot of opportunity calls, but we want some more demand calls. We're gonna go on that side. But it's it's very expensive and it's a lot more technical. So more than likely, you're gonna have to hire someone to do it. So right off the bat, there's you know, 500 to 1500 a month, depending on who you're working with. And then on top of that, you're gonna need a budget of of several thousand dollars a month to really see much attraction. So until you have another call it four grand or so that you're ready to put into marketing, it's probably not the right solution. Once maybe you, you know, so say you're cracking a hundred grand a month in revenue and you want to add a fourth or fifth source for leads, then by all means, I would go to that one. But until you get there, go to the stuff that's already working, that's cheaper and that that is proven.

SPEAKER_01:

Interesting. So you're saying that if I don't have thousands a month to spend, that maybe PPC is not the best avenue.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. Yeah, because I mean, if you think about it, a lot of the people who are in that space are the PE backed guys. So you're going against much deeper pockets. Whereas like Facebook, for instance, like the barrier to entry for Facebook is a lot higher because not only do you have to spend the money, but you have to write the ads, you have to record the ads, you have to edit the ads, you have to run the campaigns, and you start getting leads. Versus if you're lazy and you have a lot of money, you just say, okay, spend$200 a day. Okay, spend a thousand dollars a day, spend two thousand dollars a day. You're just changing the budget that's much easier for you than going out and doing all that work. So it's a fixed pot for these PPC. There's only, you know, certain amount of clicks that have uh leads to go around. And so you're they're bidding it up against you. So unless you want to bid out, you know, it's like going to the auction and bidding against a guy who's got a lot of money, he's gonna outbid you. Do you really want to play that game, or do you want to wait till a little later uh when you have some more money to spend?

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in. I was gonna say the thing that I feel is so cool about that is it seems like that's a true testament in anything in business. If you can just throw money at the problem, that's pretty much just hit an easy button. But if you're willing to go the extra step and say, I'm gonna design it, I'm gonna record it, I'm gonna target my audience, you're able to get a wider berth with less money involved, but it takes more effort. So it's do you want to pay with your time or do you want to pay with your money? I can see why avoiding the easy button is the right decision because otherwise you're competing against people who don't really care and they can just keep raising the bit.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

In the investment world, it's called alpha. It's like how much do you get over and above the market? And our alpha is the work that we put into it and and the ability to not be afraid to go get on camera.

SPEAKER_01:

Makes sense. I like that. Uh, there's some hidden benefits to that, of course, uh, like building an absolute um rock star killer brand, which I feel is also part of your organic strategy and everything else we do, guys, on social media to just be seen in your element, growing a company, but being a human at the same time. I I love that about the meta-ads uh play. We're gonna go deeper on some of the technical stuff too, guys. But for this reason, then for us, it sounds like PPC wasn't your first choice for the next set of ads to complement your LSA, but meta ads were. So you mentioned a couple of those kind of barriers to entry. How do you guys overcome that and get it rocking then?

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. So, like I said, that's that difficulty is our opportunity to outperform because we know that most people are going to do it. A statistic I like to cite for people is to ask them what percentage of people they think post regularly on social media. And you get all sorts of answers. And a lot of times they think it's like, oh, it's like 10% or 20%. But the real number is 1%. So actually slightly less than 1% of people actually post on social media regularly. And so that goes to the same thing with our competitors. So if we have 100 competitors in our area, one of them is posting regularly and doing content. So it's not a huge barrier or not a huge like bar to surpass. So if we're the one who steps up and does that, we're going to stand out tremendously. And I mean, uh, Andy was just on the podcast, it happens to him all the time, where he'll be out in public and someone will recognize him from the ads. Like his mailman says, Hey, I mean, I see your ads all the time. You're you're the guy on the ads. He's like all the time, people will come through and and uh they'll remember him from the ad. And when he goes into the house and closes the deal, like, oh, I saw your ad. Like uh literally, we had it where, like, oh yeah, I saw your ad. I went down to my basement and I had a Zinsco panel, so I called you, and here you are, and we got the job. So like it really does build the brand and puts you out there, which is nice because like even if you're not getting like say say you that you didn't do a good job and you're not getting the leads, which has yet to happen, but just say you happen, you're still getting all those impressions because the average CPM that we see from the video views campaigns is$4. And CPM is a fancy way of saying how much does it cost you to get a thousand impressions? So for every thousand impressions, you're spending four dollars. So if you spend four hundred dollars, that's a hundred thousand impressions. That's a lot of people see in your ads.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you believe that that CPM also impacts people's intent and by buying decisions outside of even the parameters of just your ad scope, then your ad scape, however you would say?

SPEAKER_03:

I do. I mean, if you look at the bigger companies, they they do more of the long-term branding. You know, Coca-Cola is always like an example. But I was at a mastermind maybe um a month ago, working with all companies who are$10 million plus. Biggest one was like$57 million. And all of them are looking at branding. So they're like, all right, I'm gonna put$2 million into this campaign or a million into TV or radio. They're not doing the direct response because they're big enough to where they don't have to. Um, but they're looking at it from that perspective of branding. So if we can do direct response and branding at the same time, that's a pretty nice combo.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd say, I'd say for sure. So the CPM's adding to our authority, it's adding to our brand, but it also a certain number of those views you would hope then are actually clicking. If someone's watching this and they're wondering some of the basic meta-ads questions, how to set this up? Do I go to a landing page? Do I go to an opt-in funnel? Uh, lead capture form, I guess is another way to say that. And what are you doing currently that works best, or what are your thoughts around that?

SPEAKER_03:

So I'm going to preface this and say that I do this all day, every day. So if I get a little too technical or skip over steps, or you're like, wait, what's that? Just let me know and I'll explain. But the way that we do it is we do a three-tier campaign. So we do a top of funnel, which is the problem awareness. I think we talked about that a little bit last time. We're trying to show them the problem that they have. Again, the Zinsco panel example. If you have this panel, this is a hazard. Um, it also will point out symptoms, like if you have uh tripping breakers or things, you know, things that go out when you plug other appliances in. We're trying to call attention to the problems or symptoms that they're experiencing so they can identify with the issue. So that's the first layer of the campaign. That is a uh in in Facebook, you have three different levels of a campaign, an ad set, and an ad. This is a separate campaign. This is the highest level. One campaign is going to be a video views campaign. And so with the campaign, it has one objective, like what's it trying to optimize for? For this first one, we're trying to optimize for video views. We want as many people as possible to see this. Okay, we will likely get no leads from this. We're just trying to get it out there. We want to get people to watch the video and feel that they have the problem. And the reason we're doing this is because the CPM is much, much cheaper. So when you do a video campaign, video views campaign, your CPM is usually around$4. If your ads are really good, you might get closer to three. But$4 for a thousand views, if you switch it to a lead campaign, your CPM becomes closer to$30, sometimes$40.

SPEAKER_01:

So okay, let me pause you and warn you here. I'm judging how well you instruct this based on Joe's expressions right now. This is the teach a sales guy marketing moment. So Joe, I hope you're paying attention because you are going to be validation for Forrest in this one. Uh, so far, what I heard is you're talking about kind of top of funnel video views being much cheaper than actually trying a conversion tactic of getting them to click on something. Is that what you heard, Joe?

SPEAKER_02:

I heard a 10x difference, which blew my mind. It's like this one is$4 and this one is$40. And wait, my brain heard that was big X. It's like, no, no, figure out why. Why is it$40? Why is it not four? Because if I can go$4 for a thousand, I'll put that button every day. So what's the big difference? Like, why would it cost that much more?

SPEAKER_03:

So that's the campaign type. So it's Facebook is optimizing to show your ads to as many people as possible versus they're optimizing your ads to get someone to fill out a form.

SPEAKER_02:

That makes a lot of sense. I can imagine if you're gonna want to fill out a form, people are gonna be less than those who just can like visually see and move on from it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. So we're trying to start out by casting a wide, wide net.

SPEAKER_02:

I was gonna say, isn't it amazing how effort, no matter how small it is, could be one of the biggest barriers to entry. Like, you know, we often, when we do our review process, a lot of times what we can also do in the process is we actually say, I'll stay with the customer, I'll send you the link right now, and I'll be present the whole time. That way, if there's any inconveniences, I can solve it for you while we're here. And you won't have to go online and find it or look it up. And most people are like, Oh, yeah, all right, I'll write it right now then if you could do that, compared to them saying I'll do it and then never doing it because they don't want to log in their email because they forgot their password and they won't be willing to look for it.

SPEAKER_03:

Amazing. Yeah, just a tiny little bit makes all the difference. Amen.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, we paused you. Go ahead for us, jump back into this with us. So so form fill.

SPEAKER_03:

Form fill is gonna be the next stage of the of the uh the second campaign. So top of funnel, video views, four dollar CPM, wide net, show these problem symptom ads to as many people as possible. The middle of funnel, also known as solution stage, is where we're talking about the solution that it fixes the problem we just talked to to them about. So a lot of times for like for panel upgrades, we're saying, hey, we're gonna get it done by the time you get home for dinner or back from work. We're going to have a backup generator so none of your stuff turns off. We will take care of the drywall, the um the um stucco, all that stuff, permits, all that will take care of you. And it's gonna be done all in one day. You're not gonna have a mess lying around for multiple days. So we're kind of talking about the solution of what that looks like. And then those ads are retargeting people who watched the first video. So the people who watch, we the nice thing about video views is Facebook tracks how long you watch the video. So if you watch the whole video, they're like, this person's really interested. So let's show them that next video. So we it's called retargeting, and we retarget anyone who watches more than three seconds of the first video. To us, three seconds says there's some level of interest here. Because if if you think about how much people don't watch, they might watch one second and scroll, no interest. But if you sit there for a full three seconds, there is some level of interest, and it's three or more, it could be 30, but anything more than three seconds, we say something is interesting to them. Let's show them the next one about the solution of how we fix the first one. So I'll stop there.

SPEAKER_01:

Just to be clear, like in 2026, which is where we're heading, we're almost there. Um, coming to the end of November at this time. Three seconds is becoming a long time when you're talking about two thumbs scrolling a couple miles a day on average. Three seconds is a game changer. Yeah, I don't stop three seconds for nothing. And I bet you a lot of the people you guys know out there are the same way. So I think that's really wise. I just wanted to throw that in there. Yeah, it blew my mind to be able to target it to that extent. Love it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so we use that to so that we're only because remember, this is 10 times up to 10 times as much as expensive for that CPM. So we all we want to save it for only people who are interested. Because then we're spending that, we're taking that more expensive impression and we're saving it for someone who has shown some level of interest. That's the the efficiency. And now I do caveat. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

If I can. What are your thoughts on kind of the iOS updates and how they're kind of blocking some of these different uh tracking mechanisms that would allow you to retarget? Has that been um something that slowed you down at all? Or don't worry about it, just just plow forward, or or what are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_03:

Without getting too technical, it was definitely um it was so it was a challenge, but you know, this was three, four years ago. It was a challenge because it was uh all the tracking was on the browser side, which is easy. You can get a lot more context from that. And now everything is switched to the server side. So Facebook has something called the conversion API or CAPI as we call it, and it's a way to feed on the back end on the server side to confirm actions that are taken. So without getting too diving too deep, we've pretty much come up with a solution around it. It's just it was nice when we had the browser side. Awesome. Thank you for that. Um, the the caveat I have for the retargeting is that usually with the amount of money we're willing to spend in the in the compressed time period, that we don't aren't able to fill up that retargeting pool as much as we'd like. Because we might show it to 100,000 people, but only 10,000 people watch the the three seconds or more. And so if we're only showing our ads for the 10,000, that's kind of small of a pool. So if you remember what I talked about the campaign level and then the ad set level, and then the ad actual ad level. So the ad set is kind of like holding a couple ads, and we'll we'll throw in a few uh what I call open ad sets, where we're not we can go outside of that retargeting pool to just some people who we think might be interested in this just to get enough volume. Otherwise, we're we're constricted to this like 10,000 people, and it's just not quite enough to get the results we want. So I'll usually throw maybe one half to one third of the ad sets are gonna be open. With a few exceptions, like we want to do 50% or more income typically. We want to do like 35 and up for age. Just we want to get more of a homeowner. And I found that the the top half of income and people over 35 are much more likely to own a home.

SPEAKER_01:

Are those the uh only two metrics that you'll use based on uh for refining demographic and interest sets, or have you tried some other interest sets as well to? To kind of help with that with Kyle Electric.

SPEAKER_03:

We've played around with a few, but they haven't made a huge difference. We do a 40 mile geography, 40 mile radius from headquarters for the GL, but those are those are the main two, just age and and income.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, the thing that stood out to me there was 35 because I'm sitting there, I'm like, wait, our age is being targeted? Usually are like, oh, they're targeting to more adulty or adults. It's like, wait, we're the adults now that have the money? Okay, time out. I was not ready to get handed the reins. What's going on here?

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, do you have money?

SPEAKER_02:

It's like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_01:

Are we supposed to have money?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh man, I've been doing the wrong thing for too long.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think I just read today the median homeowner age is 61.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh.

SPEAKER_03:

In the US. I don't know about Canada, but in the US.

SPEAKER_02:

It makes sense, but it's a sad metric, but it makes sense.

SPEAKER_03:

So we we tend to skew high.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I guess uh in my mind, you just kind of put me a moonshot into another direction there, and I'll be careful. But uh, what did you call it? The silver tsunami with all the baby boomers retiring. I guess that means there'll be a lot of homes handed down um with equity plays as well.

SPEAKER_03:

Most likely. Yeah, handed down. I know that there's a lot of downsizing as well, um, where they sell the house and get a smaller one, but yeah, there's definitely it's definitely a uh a moving demographic. Like it's it's gonna be a big trend of I think services going forward. Anything you can do to help service those people, because I think the um net worth like allocation is is by far in a way higher for the the boomers. If you look at a graph, I think it's like half or more. Um so anything you can do to service them is gonna make you some money.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, the equity is a no-joke, though. I mean, you bought your house for five cents in a bagel. I mean, it makes sense that you're gonna be able to turn value on it, you know. So I I get it. Definitely good to target them.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, so you get these leads. Um, how much are you getting a lead for from these campaigns for us for Kyle Electric?

SPEAKER_03:

Anywhere, so for us, I think we're 22 bucks for um panel leads. We've really done this mostly for panels just because it's worked, it's a high ticket, and um I haven't experimented with other ones just because I've been, you know, once something works, I just try to run with it as much as I can. Um, so I think we we spent a little under four grand, maybe 3,900 bucks, and got 175 leads, and it worked out to about 2200 bucks.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Okay. And what period have you done that?

SPEAKER_03:

I think we started in uh June, late June, early July is when I started doing this. And it it it to get to this level where I'm talking about today, it took a few months to really dial in the system. There are a couple breakthroughs that we figured out, and once we got that, then it's been game on.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so it's worthwhile at this point for you.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Cost per lead, pretty reasonable, it sounds. What goes into then getting that lead to an appointment? And what do you see for kind of fall off there between your cost per lead and your cost per appointment booked?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so this was our biggest challenge early on because we were treating them like the intent leads. So we were treated like an LSA lead that came in and you just you answer the phone and you book it because they're ready to go. Whereas this is totally different. I think maybe last time we talked about the buyer's pyramid, but if not, I'll do a quick recap. At any given point, there are 3% of a market who are ready to buy now. And that's what the PE guys at the PPC and the LSA and the SEO, all those people are fighting over that same 3% who want to buy today. But below that, 7% of the market is open to buying. And they're people who can be convinced or shown that this is an issue that they should take care of. They're open to buying. They take a little bit longer because you've got to go through that educational cycle. It's not like they decided that they wanted to do it. So the sales cycle is much longer. But the flip side of that coin, the positive side, is that their shelf life is longer. So think about if you don't answer the phone for one of these LSA leads, what are they gonna do? They're calling the next guy.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

See, yeah, I'll find the next guy, he'll take care of it. Whereas with these ones, if you don't get to them quickly or you aren't able to make contact with them right away, they're not gonna go to someone else. They've just now just begun to talk about it. Go ahead, Joe.

SPEAKER_02:

Operation Educate a Sales Guy has definitely made a next leap because I see an immediate correlation to the options process where you're like, okay, you've got someone who wants to buy immediately. That makes sense. But the reasons why options work is they didn't understand they had a problem, they weren't aware of it, or maybe they did know, but didn't know the extent of it. They didn't know that the solutions would be feasible. And here you are presenting and educating, they're like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. I'm willing to proceed with that. It seems like that's exactly what you're doing as well. I'm educating enough to make them cross that bridge. You're then showing them the benefits of crossing the bridge and then giving them a path to do so. I love it. I think it's absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_03:

It's working so far.

SPEAKER_01:

All right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So one of the other brilliant things, if I could just throw in there quick, is that we had this discussion a while back, Joe, and you see electricians do this to try to drum up leads for us. It'd be interesting to hear your opinion on this too. But there's a lot of electricians in service who default to offering free inspections as a way to try to get leads in the house. And my biggest beef with this tactic is A, it's severely discounted and really bleeds you out. You're hoping that you find something. And the homeowners know this. Yeah, they know that you're looking for stuff to fix. There's very, very few, basically, the intent leads, the people that are thinking, and probably their boomers too, thinking, well, we could use some home upgrades anyway. So let's go ahead and allocate some budget. And they're thinking that before they call. But also from your service technician's perspective, these are some of the hardest calls to do because even if they welcome the inspection to just learn, they're not problem aware at all. So you have to take them from problem aware to solutions aware and then create a buyer all in the process of a visit. And it's too big of a gap. The sales cycle is not meant to be that short. So it's very unproductive, I've found personally.

SPEAKER_02:

I think the additional thing though is also the scarcity deflation, because as something becomes more scarce, it becomes more valuable. And if we're willing to say, I'm going to offer free inspections, there's no charge, I'll show up, I'll do the whole home evaluation, I'll design solutions. And they haven't asked for it, or there's no relative, like it's not a Christmas bonus. It's not something that's happened, you don't have a specific reason to do it. Community give back day. Like there's no reason to do so. You seem like you're desperate. And as a result, if you're desperate, you don't command the right to have a premium price. If anything, there should be a higher barrier to get someone into the door. And that would make someone motivated to do it because they're like, wow, if we have this guy come in, that's that's a rare thing. All right, let's let's invest in that. That doesn't happen all the time.

SPEAKER_01:

For sure. So from a service person's perspective, uh, salesperson, service, whatever, you're a safety uh specialist, you're going to someone's house knowing they have a Zensco. Knowing exactly why they called. It's already out. And that's a gift all day, every day. That's a call I want to run. I'd agree with you there. Have you seen have you seen anyone against that yet, Forrest?

SPEAKER_03:

No, so I've seen pretty much zero correlation between mentioning like a free inspection in the ad and them asking for it. So, like, I've never had someone, where's my free inspection? Like, when they fill out the form, there's a field that we put in there about the issue they're having, and we just address that. Like they're not calling us because of a free inspection. And sometimes we say it, sometimes we don't. Um, but they never even ask twice about it. So we just address the uh the problem that they brought up, like the the dispatcher will.

SPEAKER_01:

Fair enough. So to go more technical, then uh we're seeing this works. You said 4K. That's a relatively low investment. Uh earlier you said, hey, PPC, a lot of times it would be advised to spend thousands a month to get a reasonable result. You spent 4,000 in like four months, four, four and a half months, five months, maybe.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

And you got great results. You had 120 leads. You've said you learned from um how to treat them more like um not the intent, but the interrupt leads that they are. You mentioned shelf life. And what you meant by that, I I perceived was that we can continue to reach out to these people until it is a fit, essentially. I know some electricians really struggle with this barrier. How do you guys justify the continual follow-up it sometimes takes to um continue this conversation and move things across the line?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I'd say this was probably the most difficult part of this journey. Getting the leads was not that difficult, but booking them was the real challenge at first until I set the expectation with our dispatchers of, hey, you're we gotta call these people 10 times and we got to call them within five minutes. And at first it took a lot of kind of you know, nagging for lack of a better word, where I'm just on them all the time because we they come into our Slack, and as soon as they come in, I would tag them and say, Hey, do you got this one? And after doing that for like three months, uh, they finally kind of do it on their own now. So, but that was the the biggest challenge is that they wouldn't call them fast enough because think about the window that someone has while they're scrolling. You know, they're either in in the restroom or you know, doing something like in between tasks. And as soon as that period is over, they're back to work. They're they're back in the car. Like you kind of lost that period. So it's really important that we get there quickly and contact them. But if we do miss that window, then it's gonna take a lot of attempts till we can line up our schedules again. Like, think about how busy people are. Think about when you're trying to schedule something with someone and you're trying to make those calendars work, it's it's really no different than when we're calling them. And we're just guessing, saying, hey, does this work? Does this work? Does this work? And usually the answer is no. They're usually busy. And so that's where the 10 attempts comes in is like if we give them 10 different uh potential appointment times, I bet we can connect on one of them. And I hear it all the time. My my dispatcher tells me that very frequently, that on the ninth or 10th attempt, they'll be like, oh, hey, Bethany, I've been trying to get in touch with you. Thanks for following up. They're they're they're uh they're happy about it because if you think about it, we just made their life easier. Because otherwise, they got to start from scratch, call another electrician, try to book an appointment and go through all that rigmarole. But instead, now they just press the green accept button and they get to take care of their problem. Joe, you said you're a big list guy. They get to cross that off their list now just by pressing the green accept button.

SPEAKER_02:

The best invention for lists was the one where they had the ability, I think Google made with Google Notes, where you can cross the list off. And instead of being removed from the list, it adds a gray little line over it and blurs it out. That is the most satisfying list moment right there.

SPEAKER_03:

So we're giving people that by reaching out multiple times. We're giving that to people.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think I drew a parallel as you were you were saying this, and maybe this helps. Joe, you ever been kind of pissed at a situation or someone, something upset you, but then you go for a walk, and afterwards you're not upset so much to leave a bad review or to even call them again or to message or anything like that. It's just like, yeah, say la vie. We'll we'll just let that uh let sleeping dogs lie, I think is the expression, right?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I'm a weird one because I will almost always write the five-star review, but it takes a lot. It takes so much anger to write the bad review because as someone who's owned businesses before, I know what a blow that is and how dangerous that can be for someone's brand. So, like, you've got to really fuck up. Like, for lack of better words, you've got to really, really mess up and make me feel bad or underserve me to the extent where I'm like, I don't care for the repercussions, one star, and here's why.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So if you guys have ever had like a happy Gilmore moment like that, and you realize, uh, the emotion kind of fades after some activity. Well, what Forrest, I think you're saying is like the activity was already planned. They may have only paused for a moment. It might have been a coffee break, a porcelain throne date, whatever it was, they go back to movement in their life and the emotion of what they just witnessed, the reason they fill out the form actually fades a bit. And so it's the right thing to do to continue to follow up and to continue to have them see your videos even in that CPM placement because they there was a reason they got emotional in the first place. That part didn't go away. It's still on their honeydew list. That's kind of what I'm hearing. How does that set for us?

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly. Like I said, we're doing them a favor by making it easier for them to cross that item off their list. And the the only way to do that is to follow up multiple times. And now don't get me wrong, if they say they're not interested, we don't call ever again. But it we're just assuming that we haven't found a good time to connect until that point. We're just assuming, okay, they're busy, they're busy, they're busy. On the 10th time, we connect, awesome, let's go.

SPEAKER_02:

The thing you said right now, I think is one of the biggest things that someone can take away from, where you're like, if they show that they're not interested, we don't continue to bother them. And the reason being is I literally have a plumbing company that I've already fired. Like they're I've like, I've called them. I do not want to work with you. Do not call or text me. And every week I could still pull up and be like, hey, your free plumbing inspection is here. Don't you want us to come by and check your whole system? Only takes 45 minutes. Like fuck up. I don't want you here. Leave me alone. Oh, so I'm glad to know that you're not that person. That makes me so happy.

SPEAKER_03:

No, we yeah, we're only doing those follow-up attempts if there's just no answer.

SPEAKER_01:

Awesome. Our goal, just like we talked about in the process, is just clearer futures, more sleep at night. Right? It's not actually about assaulting people, it's about making sure their needs are understood. It's the same reason we don't email it over. The quote that is, right? It's the same reason we want to come back and just have a conversation, make sure your questions are answered. So we know for sure what is the reasonable next step. That's so, so important. Just clearer futures. I mean so yeah, can appreciate that part of this. So that's the next thing you mentioned it gets in the way. Um, once we break that down, now it seems like we're finally to just electricians in homes doing that thing that we train electricians to do.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I like to um, and actually, before we do that, let me close the loop because we didn't talk about the third stage of the third campaign, which is also uh conversion, uh, the lead uh lead campaign, same thing, retargeting the the people who watched the uh first two sets of videos. And that one is the product awareness, just to close that loop. That's when you talk about your company and your years of experience, your Google reviews, you know, why you're the best company to hire. The problem that I see a lot of people do when they try to do Facebook ads is they want to start with that one and say, we're we're the best, buy our shit, as I like to say. Like they're trying to, you know, you're just promoting yourself. And the problem is if you haven't shown them the problem that they have, you haven't presented a solution, then why should they give a crap about you and your company? They're like, cool story, bro. I'm gonna keep swiping and looking at the stuff that I like. Whereas if you've shown them the problem and and they they realize that there's an issue, you've shown them how you're gonna fix it, it's only logical that you say that, hey, we're the best person to do this for you. And so that's why we say that for the end. And then that typically is your best performing campaign of the three, not always, but usually that's the best one because you've you've done that educational process, you've taught them, and now you're just saying, hey, we'll take care of it for you. Here's why you should pick us.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's what you call the bottom of funnel, then. Sorry for skipping you there.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep, bottom of funnel, product awareness. I the we we use them interchangeably on our team.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So on that ad, you're literally going to show more of your logo, specifics about your brand, maybe even some background story.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah. You could do all of the above. Yeah, um, background story, uh, credibility, authority. You just want to show you make your it's making your case for why you're the best choice.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Really cool. What is your now compared to LSA, what is this campaign? How does it compare? What does it look like as far as cost per lead and cost per appointment booked, if you don't mind me asking?

SPEAKER_03:

So the cost per lead is is less, but the cost per appointment is about the same because we don't book quite as many of them. So in in anything, you know, there as Thomas saw say, there's there's no such thing as benefits, only trade-offs. And so we're basically trading off lead volume for lead quality, um, or just people who are ready, because these sales cycles tend to be two to three times as long. Because again, we're they're not ready to buy today, but they're open to buying. So sometimes we'll get a lead and three or four weeks later, we'll get the sale, not right away. Um, but the cost per appointment is very similar. Um, like I said in the beginning, booking them was a challenge because we were treating them like the SEO or the LSA leads. So our booking rate was low. It was like 20 or 30. Um, but after working with our team and really dialing it in and setting that expectation, now we're closer to like a 40% book rate on those, whereas LSA is 60, I want to say. So the cost per appointment, I think for um LSA last month for us was 86. I'm looking at it now,$86.66 to get into the house. And for Facebook, it was 112.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So not too far off.

SPEAKER_03:

No, yeah, our target is is 100 to 110, is where we want to be. If we can get for last great, but usually we see you know 110 or less.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice.

SPEAKER_01:

Awesome, really cool. And so then you're able to get in the home, etc., run the play. Finally, I can loop that in there without cutting you off. From the meta ads, and we haven't talked about this yet. Uh, have you made some sales out of those leads?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'd say about 40 or 50 grand.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So you spend about four grand. You're like you're close to about a 10x return on ad spend then.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. Yeah, that's always our target. If we're not getting that, we're trying to figure out why.

SPEAKER_01:

I think you mentioned in a past episode, if not, we'll plug it here. What do you think is the most important metric to track regarding these ads?

SPEAKER_03:

Sure. So I look at it kind of differently from being on both sides, like being the person who generates the lead as the agency, as well as being the business owner who has the electrical company. I've had a good experience to seeing both sides and who should be accountable for what. For the marketing, really at the end of the day, they should be responsible for the cost per lead because that is really all that they can control. After that, the booking rate is up to the company. And so, I mean, you know, I'm I'm a company, so that helps. But the the um ROAS is what we tend to default to. So what's my return on ad span or what's my, you know, what's my um investment that I get, my uh return on investment. The issue with that is it doesn't tell the full story because there's three stages of this cycle that are going to determine that ROAS. And if one of them is broken, you can't blame it on the other two. So if your cost per lead is good and your booking rate is good, meaning your your cost per appointment is good, but your conversion rate is low, which means that your ROAS stinks, whose fault is that? Is that marketing's fault? Is that Facebook is not a good lead source, or is there someone who needs to get into some more calls with Joe? Whereas I feel like good.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry, I was just gonna plug. I feel like you could say the opposite just to be the asset test for that, too. Is there a way I could improve ROAS without affecting or changing my ads effectively? And that's what I'm hearing when you say that too. It's not just why do we suck, but holy crap, could we improve it without even doing anything to the ads? And it sounds like unequivocally, yes, right? Sales process, conversion.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, my question is always is where is it broken? So if if if the row ads or the our return on our ad spend is not where we want it to be, let's figure out which of those stages is broken. Because it's almost never all three, and it's almost never two, it's almost always one. So if our cost per lead is out of whack, okay, marketing, maybe we need a different channel, maybe we're not running good ads, we got to fix that. But if our cost per lead is good, that means that marketing is doing its job. Good Joe.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off. I was just simply saying that's another reason why I feel running a process is so important. Because if you have like a bunch of A players winging it and they're top tier, how and where is it breaking? Because you don't have a process to diagnose to figure out where it's going wrong. That's why I love having one. Because if you say, okay, let's say I'm not converting, well, I where? Where is it falling apart? Is it your presentation? Is it your option design? Is it your commitment levels? Is it like what have you done? So I love that it just kind of clicks where you're like, you need this in order to measure that. In order to measure that, you need the next step too. So all three kind of like interlock.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, there it's a chain. And anytime the chain is broken, the whole thing is gonna suffer. So you have to have the whole thing. So we're always looking at which one of these is broken. So, like I say, in for as far as for marketing channels or your marketing in general, your cost per lead is the best indicator of that. And depending on, you know, if you're coming from the agency side or the business owner side, then um it's gonna determine if the booking is a part of that, the booking rate. So, you know, from our side, the the booking rate, we typically want that to be 50% uh or more if possible. So if we're getting leads at a great cost, but our booking rate is 20%, that's gonna be really tough to make it work. So that's where I don't like to say, like if someone says, hey, this is not working, these leads are crap, it's like, okay, let's dial down and say which one of these three is broken and how do we fix it? And then once we know which one's broken, we can go over best practices and say, all right, well, eight sales is down, we need to get them in some classes. Are you running the process? Are you doing all the things that you know you're supposed to do? If the booking rate is down, all right, are you calling them within five minutes? Are you following up 10 times? Like wherever is broken down, we're gonna run a play and fix that. And so I'd say of this whole journey, that's maybe the most important uh loop that we've figured out is how to fix that instead of just saying, Oh, that didn't work. I'm gonna try something else. Because how many times do we hear that? It's like, oh, LSA doesn't work for me, or Andrew's ad sucks. Okay, well, yeah, are you calling within five minutes? The answer is always no.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna piggyback on this and say there's actually two um well-known and documented things that affect this. And one of these is actually the um the path of least resistance, is what I'm looking for. And this affects humans as well in conservation of energy. Literally, we're programmed biologically to avoid um big efforts that aren't seen as essential. But the problem is that we also have a bias that kind of shows us that we've already done work and that conservation of energy makes us not want to go deeper on that work because we haven't seen any fruit from it yet. It's the equivalent of our caveman uncle digging a hole to find an apple, and there was no apple four inches deep, but truly they were actually six inches deep. And so the same thing, these same principles apply in process. And what Forrest is saying, and if you were shocked by a 50% booking rate at all, keep in mind like we're talking about potential eight to 10k average ticket leads here. These are people that want panel replacements or service upgrades, right? Like this is not uh$200 demand call. These are big things. So keeping that in mind, when you refine your process and it helps to have extra eyes on it, highly recommend uh uh grabbing a strategy call with Forrest if you guys are interested in that. The link is down below. But having extra eyes will show you past your own bias of I did everything, this doesn't work. And what will happen as a result? You'll find the other four or five ways to improve that metric, and it will improve across your entire company because of the work you do in your worst area. That's something that I've observed, and it's a bit of a miracle in business. It sometimes takes that outside perspective, though.

SPEAKER_03:

Totally. Yeah, the theory of constraints is an eye-opener. It's saying like the bottleneck in your business is the thing that's holding it back, not the other items. The potential doesn't mean anything until you fix that one item and open up like the a factory is a good example. So, say there's one stage of the factory that's holding and backing up the rest of the factory. It doesn't matter how much more you're putting through, it's all gonna get backed up in that one place until you can remove that constraint and then the throughput goes, and then you just find the bottle, the next bottleneck.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love that. Recently, uh we're gonna try to wrap this up. I know we're a bit over time, guys. Thank you for your patience with this. Um, recently, I had a mentor tell me it was a bit of a finance background, like Forrest. And he said, look, there's there's two elements of control you can have in your business. You can control your expenses, but we all know there's a limit to that. At some point, if you want to do 100K plus months, I mean, you're gonna be spending somewhere between 50, 60, 70k a month in your bills. That's just what it is. OpEx, cost of goods sold. It is what it is, right? You have to spend. You can't at some point reduce your guys' wages so they don't work for you anymore. Or the other area was income control. And what I love about this podcast and this focus is that if you can figure these pieces out, then it's essentially infinite. Because if you have all these ads areas working for you, like Forrest said, four or five channels working for you, and you're talking hundreds of leads a month, and we've seen it work up to 300, 300 plus leads a month and have this ability to hit 300k, 500k. Heck, even a million dollar a month companies, it's infinite. And even if you max out in an area, then there's always, well, let's just do what works again and copy and paste over in the next service area over or in the next state over. And guys can do this again infinitely. So where cost control is limited, income control is unlimited. And if you figure these things out, then the world is your oyster and you get to make this as big as you can possibly handle. Forrest, any thoughts on that and closing comments for you today on the podcast?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I mean, I think you nailed it. You know, there's only so much you can cut. If you want to build a big company, you got to find ways to get more leads. You know, we see any, you know, we like to do it from the um ratio. So, what is the ratio of things that we're spending? And for us marketing, we want to get around 10%. So we did 110,000 last month. So we want to spend 11,000. We spent that exactly on the dot. That's our reinvestment to keep the machine running. So without that, we could keep, you know, trying to save quote unquote money. We're not really saving anything, we're just making a smaller business. So once you figure out you know what you can afford to spend, and I think you guys do a really good job of this, is figuring out your average ticket and your average opportunity. That's what's going to tell you how much you can afford to spend on these leads. So you just do the math backwards and say, all right, anything I can do that's below this, you know, for example, say for someone it's$60, I can spend, get$60 a lead and still make money. Anything you can do below that point is is golden. So don't worry if you're getting, you know, 60 instead of 20. You're still making money and you're just trying to get better as you go. But you got to be willing to reinvest in in the business to grow. That's the only way. Absolutely. Joe, any closing comments, brother?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I'd say there's a lot I learned as a whole, but the thing that just keeps sticking out more and more is that in every industry, it doesn't matter what it is, doesn't matter what you're selling, what you're trying to design, the biggest barrier to entry being effort is just really just such a game changer. If we can understand how to systemize it to make it easy to buy, how it's easy to move forward, how it's easy to click the form, the results are going to be exponentially higher than even if you put the smallest of barriers into place. So, Forrest, thank you for confirming you know what I felt. Really, it's very validating. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Really cool, guys. We've got this uh 30-day sprint spreadsheet that you guys can grab below, whether you're watching on YouTube, listening on the podcast, etc. And of course, if you want help reverse engineering this, figuring this out, go ahead, click and book a strategy call with Forrest to see what ads could look like for you. But also uh another link below, electricserviceapp.com, where you can sign up and join us in the app for even more great ideas, even more help reverse engineering this. And of course, getting your process down so you can make the low uh most of all these leads. Thank you guys very much. We'll see you again next week on the Million Dollar Electrician Podcast. Take care, friends. Be blessed.

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Clay Neumeyer

Host
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Joseph Lucanie

Co-host