Million Dollar Electrician - Sale to Scale For Home Service Pros
Rewiring Our Mission: (Electricpreneur Secrets)
Helping Electricians Achieve the $1M Service Van so they can experience ultimate control over their futures.
Join Clay Neumeyer & Joseph Lucanie for a new electrifying episode & High-amperage action item each week to spark up your service van sales to $50K, $70K, $100K, $150K months, and beyond!
Million Dollar Electrician - Sale to Scale For Home Service Pros
S3 EP02 The 4-Part Growth Machine for Electricians with Forrest Schwartz
Most electricians think they need more leads to grow.
But what if your business doesn’t need more work it needs better gears?
In this episode, Forrest Schwartz, CoFounder and CEO of TopLineGrowth (co-owner of Keil Electric) breaks down the 4-Part Growth Machine that turned his company from $9K months to over $165 K/month without adding chaos or losing control of the schedule.
💡 What You’ll Learn:
- Why leads aren’t your problem but follow-up is
- How $300 jobs turn into $48K with the right sales system
- The mistake 90% of electricians make with their marketing
- How to get remembered and chosen by homeowners
If you’re an electrician ready to earn more, serve better, and finally gain control of your schedule, this episode will shift everything!
⚡️Featured Guest:
Forrest Schwartz, CoFounder and CEO of TopLineGrowth
Focused on helping companies grow their top line revenue via digital marketing.
🌐Book your complimentary call here: https://topline-growth.com/sle
⚡️Take your electrical service business to the next level!
Join the SLE Pro App Community!
⚡️Podcast Powered by Duromax Generators.
Making turnkey power solutions easy.
📧 Email: jesse@duromaxpower.com
🌐 Website: www.duromaxpower.com
📞 Call: 909-490-5789
⚡️Jump into the Million Dollar Electrician Community and connect with real business-minded sparkies!
⚡️If you are an electrician looking for trade-specific business training in pricing, options, sales, attraction, and marketing strategies, Then our Loop Method is your answer!
⚡️Learn how to serve and earn at the highest level.
#electricianbusiness #homecontractors #serviceloop #electricianmarketing #homeservices
You've got to bill for the growth of where you want to be, not where you are today. We don't need to borrow money and we don't need investors to grow an electrical business. You don't need it for financial reasons. That's not the case. You need to bill for your growth in advance, and that money will show up in your account so that you can invest in marketing. Invest in the next van, invest in the wraps on the next van, invest in CSR, invest in the office of the shop, the storage, anything you need, your tools, so that you can show up a premium provider. What do you think is the single biggest thing that electricians should be focused on first and foremost in their marketing?
SPEAKER_02:The fastest way to double your business, call your leads. Call them within 10 minutes and call them up to 10 times after you told me to do them the first time. If you do that, I can guarantee you're going to at least have a 50% increase, probably double your business. If you just do that, it's simple and easy.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Million Dollar Electrician Podcast, where we help home service pros like you supercharge your business and spark up those sales.
SPEAKER_03:I'm Joseph Lucani, and together with my co-host Clay New Meyer, we're here to share the secrets that have helped electricians sell over a million dollars from a single service band.
SPEAKER_00:Now it's time for sales. It's time for scale. It's time to become a million-dollar electrician.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to another great episode of Million Dollar Electrician. And today's another fantastic day in the season three with another great guest. We have with us Forrest Schwartz of Top Line Growth. Forrest is doing some excellent marketing stuff, but more noteworthy, as you guys know, we tend to have just electricians on this show. There's been like one or two exceptions. Uh, Forrest, you might be number three, except, guys, I'll give it this preface. Uh, Forrest is part owner of Kyle Electric, a former client of ours. And Kyle Electric grew from not only our processes and service last year from I think you said under 10K months to over 165 at the peak, which is remarkable. So that's in part uh to credit with what we were able to work with you guys on, but also just in part in testament to uh Forrest's marketing ability. And so we wanted to bring Forrest on for the unique potential of this interview to share some deeper marketing insights that also come from an electrical background. And I think that's so valuable, man. So welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us here today.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for having me, man. Really looking forward to it.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, why did you decide, if you don't mind me asking, to get into the electrical game? I'll pre-warn you here, too. Like you've got uh a chance here to earn some favor of our listeners or completely burn us and have this uh go the wrong way. No pressure, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, yeah, so I've been in the agency space for almost 10 years, having uh digital marketing agency. And I was in a niche before actually bowling, of all things, believe it or not. And um, I was working with them. They didn't turn out to be quite the niche that I was hoping for. I was in it because a friend of mine had one and we helped him double his bowling center revenue. And so I thought, hey, there's not a lot of competition here, so I'll you know be the best in this space, but there's a reason there wasn't a lot of competition there. So that's where I wanted to go more into the home services space. So I created a uh a matrix of like 25 different industries and then came up with criteria across the board and then came up with a point system. And the top ones were um electrician, landscaping, plumbing, and HVAC. And so we started buying some businesses in those areas, and I quickly learned that landscaping wasn't as good as what I initially thought. Um, and electric, uh, after working with Andy, was definitely the the best of the mix and the one that I could drive the most results with. And so that's where I decided let's double down on this one, and then that's uh, you know, shortly after I reached out to you, and uh here we are.
SPEAKER_03:I love someone who's doubling down in the electric field. Always a pleasure, always a pleasure working with Sparkies.
SPEAKER_01:There's two things, and and I don't want to get too distracted, but I was at a bowling alley not long ago, and I think I shared this with you before, and I just like some of the lanes didn't work, really not managed well. The staff were crummy, the cooler was empty, the chips were still. I was just like, man, what you could do with this bowling alley. I mean, bowling's still enjoyed by so many people. What do you think is the problem with that industry? If we can just click.
SPEAKER_02:Biggest thing is there used to be 12,000 of them. They really peaked in the 70s. There was a lot of bowling. It was very much like a factory, like people in factory towns, that's what they would do. Um, there used to be 12,000, now there's 3,000. And the ones who are in business, they got all the business from the other ones that are gone. And the biggest reason that they go out of business is because they sell the building. The buildings are worth more than the business.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I was thinking too. I was sitting in there and I we even looked into it. It's like, what would this building be worth? And I in the area I live in and many cities, it's like historic downtown real estate, and there's this big bowling alley that's just completely outdated. No one can afford to update it. So, anyway, interesting you brought that up. Um, thanks for for humoring me, guys. I'm also curious about this matrix. You built a matrix and a point system. Like, what were some of the things that we scored so highly on? Why would that be?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh one of the big things was how much it can be impacted by marketing. Um, before I was in the agency space, I was a financial advisor and I looked at that one because I wanted to buy businesses and grow with marketing. And that's a very much like a face-to-face, person-to-person networking kind of business. So that would rank low in the can I grow it with marketing? Um, how it will be impacted by AI is another one. So certain ones like roofing got a bad score in that because a robot can do or will soon be able to do some roofs. I think there's some out there that are now doing it. Um, same with landscaping, you got a rotto robot, mowers, and things that are coming, whereas electrical is pretty safe. I think it's gonna be, you know, maybe one day they'll they'll be able to do it, but it's gonna be a long time before they can figure that out, before people would trust them. Um, so so those are the things. Profitability was one, um, ability to find an operator was another one, um, ability to find deals. So, like there's tons of landscaping companies available. We looked at other businesses, like we looked at med spas, and there's not that many of them available. So it was like, I want to say about 10 different things that I ranked, and I came up with a definition for one being bad and a definition for five being good, and then just subjectively ranked them. And, you know, that's something I used for getting into this industry, but it actually works for almost any major decision that you're looking at. You can kind of use that uh to just break it down because it's kind of overwhelming. But when you put numbers to it, it kind of makes you it makes it easier and helps make the decision for you.
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:And that's one of the reasons we wanted to have you on the show. Really appreciate that uh your mindset on data-driven decision making or something we call the law of separation, just meaning we have to like everyone has a gut instinct, everyone has that feel. Sometimes it's butterflies, sometimes it's oh crap, I can't sleep over this. But acting purely from that emotional state's a bad idea, guys. Having data-driven decisions is really the way to go forward. Although I need to argue with one thing you said. Uh, we've had many people call Joseph a sales bot. He's an electrician. Maybe it's already been infiltrated. Maybe we find out that Joe's not actually human and that uh he's you're actually a robot, Joe. What are your thoughts on this?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I mean, technically, Skynet hasn't updated me yet, so I can't really give you a proper response, but you know, I will get there. I will get there, man. If there was a way that I could do uh oil changes instead of physical tune-ups, I'd be fine with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's interesting. I had never heard of roofing uh having robots, but I guess that kind of makes sense. It's repetitive. Why do you think it is that electrical, from your experience at this point, is further from that? Complete automation.
SPEAKER_02:Just, I mean, it's not like think about roofing, it's very repetitive. It's doing the same motion, same with mowing, it's just going back and forth. It's basically a roomba is the mower for that. Like and same with roofing, it's basically like a roomba that you just put metal or the uh nails into the shingles. So it's very repetitive. Whereas being an electrician, a lot more um variety of situations, a lot more creativity. You've got to identify all the different wires, getting access. Um, there's just a lot more that goes into it. Even just the physical of being able to put the wire and run it through into the panel, like there's a lot of stuff for a robot to be able to do that would take a lot with even the um actuators to be able to do that fine motor movement.
SPEAKER_03:And even with that, like you can imagine, like, let's go even further into the future. I can see almost even new construction being something that someone might want to get a robot into, but I will be damned if I find any robot who can do service work, crawl into the crawl space, troubleshoot the situation, recognize unusual scenarios. That's I think where the real safety lies, in that we can use our intelligence and our experiences to solve problems in ways that others just physically and mentally cannot.
SPEAKER_02:Not to mention the personal aspect too, just building the rapport and the relationship is a lot of the piece of the service work.
SPEAKER_01:I agree with you. That makes sense, absolutely. And I'm almost now that you say that, I think I've realized, I've had an epiphany in that moment of just okay, here's why pricing is such a sore spot for electricians over and over and over again. And there's such variety, such customization, and we're all drooling over some form of price book, something to just try to template this for us, but that solution is rarely 100%, right? There's always some customization, there's always some amount of you, as a specialized subject matter expert, have to think about this and apply certain factors to make it right. How big was pricing for you guys and Kyle Electric getting going for us? I know that was a big piece of what you worked on here with us. Uh how big of a solution do you think that was for you guys?
SPEAKER_02:That was huge. Um, because Andy, the guy who's the operator, he came a lot more from the commercial side and doing the bigger projects. So service was something he'd liked. It's something he could do. He's great with people, but something that we were getting on, getting into early. And so the the being able to calculate what price we should charge was was huge and knowing what goes into it and why it's justifiable, because we came up, our service rate was like 456. And at first, when we when we said that, we're thinking, oh, that's that's a lot of money. But then when you figure out what is going into it, you feel very confident to charge that because you know how many things it has to cover. And it's not just so like, oh, I don't know if I can get away with that. It's like, no, I literally have to charge this in order to make money. And it kind of takes that fear out of it. It's just like, no, this is what it is, and I did the math to prove it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I absolutely love that. I think it's phenomenal because you're right, at the end of the day, you're completely right. You know, one of the biggest problems that we intend on finding is that people don't believe in their number, and as a result, they'll start cheating the hours. Like, yeah, I doubled my rate, but I also am trying to underestimate things because I'm uncomfortable with the number. But if you recognize you've actually done the math and you're like, no, this is exactly what I need to charge, otherwise, money's coming out of my pocket, out of my family's investments to cover the things because I'm too chicken to charge the rate I have to charge, that's where the really solidarity comes into. And you're like, I'm digging, I'm dialed in, let's do it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. One thing that we we I always like to repeat to them and the partners is like, you can break even sitting on the couch. So if you're gonna do all this work to break even, you can get the same result just sitting on the couch doing nothing. So if I'm gonna be out there away from my family or not doing the things I want to do, we better be making some money.
SPEAKER_01:100%. Do you recall what your rate or or what uh Kyle Electric's rate might have been before that increase to around the 450 mark?
SPEAKER_02:I want to say it was maybe like 150, 200, or something like that. It wasn't very much.
SPEAKER_01:So the crazy thing I always find at service, and so many people get that you know, uh primary price shock from this, is there's this 50% efficiency factor. And when you really do the math, you find that, okay, well, sure, I got to do a bathroom fan, but who's gonna pick that up? You literally have to drive and go and get it from a supply house. You're lucky if your customer's next door to the supply house. In fact, that never happens, right? So there's always all this additional time that goes unaccounted for. Or in the old hourly model, time and material model, we'd put that on our customer's back and they'd say, Well, why'd this take so long? Well, I had to drive to the supply house, I had to pick up the fan, I had to choose the fan. The fan wasn't readily available, they had to pick it from the top shelf. All these factors, your customer doesn't want to pay for that. So, one of the big things just from this price differentiation that it's pointed out to me again is like, okay, well, a 50%. So we're only charging for time on site now, which is amazing through flat rate, by the way, guys, right? So it has to be double what it would have otherwise been. But from what you're saying, if you were already just under 200 an hour and you landed at 459, then even half of the 459 is still a little over where you were. So, either way, by just doing the math, you guys found that there were more expenses. And one of the biggest places we pull this from that electricians are messing up. You guys, no offense, but if you're messing this up, we got to get it fixed. You got to bill for the growth of where you want to be, not where you are today. I keep saying this, I'll say it again, we'll end the rant and get right into the marketing stuff with Forrest stuff, uh, with Forrest here today, but we don't need to borrow money and we don't need investors to grow an electrical business. You don't need it for financial reasons. That's not the case. You need to bill for your growth in advance, and that money will show up in your account so that you can invest in marketing. Invest in the next van, invest in the wraps on the next van, invest in CSR, invest in the office of the shop, the storage, anything you need, your tools, so that you can show up a premium provider, uh, the the um outfits, excuse me, right? What uniform are you wearing when you show up to the house? All right, I'm I'm done my pricing rant, guys. Uh forgive me, forgive me. Forrest, uh back to you. What do you think is the single biggest thing that electricians should be focused on first and foremost in their marketing?
SPEAKER_02:So believe it or not, this is something that people probably won't expect, but in my experience, it's the fastest way to double your business call your leads. Call them within 10 minutes and call them up to 10 times after you don't get in touch with them the first time. If you do that, I can guarantee you're going to at least have a 50% increase, probably double your business if you just do that. It's it's simple, not easy.
SPEAKER_01:It's funny you said that. We have um a value piece that we give away. We give this away for free to the market. It's called the unsold FU, which is just funny. Follow-up process, the script for it to just call. And it actually has one of the best testimonies we've ever received from a client or prospect before. It was Alan who's been on the show before. If you guys are long-term followers, he'll be uh on here again in season three, guys. Excited for that one. But when Alan first met us, he grabbed that value piece and he started making calls. And I don't have this in front of me, so I may be misquoting slightly, but I do believe Alan said this script is gangster. That's correct.
SPEAKER_02:Now you remember.
SPEAKER_01:I just did a bunch of outreach and made some sales on calls. We just had no idea where they were or what happened. Boris, it's no coincidence, and I'm not surprised to hear you say that. What stops people from actually following up with their leads and actually making calls, actually doing this uh with some speed and urgency?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, like the the first go-to answer is like laziness, but I mean, let's be real, like the electricians aren't lazy. It's just they're focused on other things. They're out doing the jobs, they're talking to the customers, sending invoices. It just falls to the wayside. Um, so I would say that's probably one of the first, if not the first, hire. Even if it's part-time, is get some kind of appointment setter. It can be an office admin, or if you just want to get someone, you can hire people on a per appointment basis. Um, but just you shouldn't be the one making the calls. Um, number one, because you're not gonna be able to. Number two, you lose out on the um posturing that you get from someone else setting appointments for you, and they can edify you and say, oh, you're lucky that Joe's coming in today because he's got this many years of experience, he's gonna crush it. I'm I'm glad that he was available to do that for you. And they can really push you up in the prospect's eyes, and they're they're just gonna do it. If that's their job, they'll actually get it done. Whereas you're doing 10 other things and the call comes in and you're you know climbing through an attic, good luck getting that call.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it comes down to overwhelm as well, too. I mean, I can imagine you're on an install and you're like, I've got to get the materials for the next job, I've got to call this person back, I've got to finish this job, I've got to get home to my family, and you're like, all these other undone things are like, oh, I'll do them tomorrow. But you just keep rolling them into the next day and next day, and what doesn't get managed doesn't get measured, and vice versa.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that thing never happens.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, time management problem. So you've helped multiple companies uh reach seven figures and beyond and scale their businesses in home service. How have you helped people solve this big problem?
SPEAKER_02:We all we always hire someone to do it. That's their their dedicated job. Uh like a dispatcher, if they need to coordinate between multiple texts or just appointment setter, you got to have someone who's answering the phone. Um, because they're they've done studies, and if you don't answer or get to them within 10 minutes, you have to call like three to five times more than you would if you would have gotten to them right away or just answered the phone. So now, even just doing that, you're lighting the workload just by having someone there dedicated. That's that's all they do.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. So you mentioned call within 10 minutes, and that has a huge impact on how many times you'd have to call. But then you also said 10 times. Isn't that excessive? Is that too much? You're like pestering someone now, no?
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean you're gonna front load it. So you're calling, you know, two to three times on the first day, maybe two times on the second day, and then spacing it out. But people are busy and they might have filled something out and you didn't quite get to them, and now you're following up. Now they're off to work. Now they're taking the kids back from school, like they're busy now. So now you got to catch them. They were available to talk to you at first, but now they're not, and so you got to catch them. And I think most people, as long as you do it politely, then you they're just they're thankful. Like, thanks for following up. I've I've been meaning to get to this, but I've been busy and they don't remember to call you, but you call them and and as long as you like again, as long as it's politely done, then they're like, thanks for following up on this. If if they don't want to do it, they'll let you know, and then you stop. But it's it's more a service for them to show you want to help them and you're making it convenient for them that they just have to press the green accept button.
SPEAKER_01:Of all the things that hold people up from making that call, like we said, we give away a script. What do you think are the most important things to say when you're following up a lead for us? Do you have uh some dialogue you guys usually recommend or that you use in house?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh, I'm very much like the motivation-based sales kind of person. So I want to figure out why they called, what made them call now, like why, you know, like you this, especially if it's a problem that's been there, like what made you decide to do it now? What's this gonna do for you? Because that's what we're gonna sell against later on if there's objections. It's you told me you wanted this, and now you're saying that this is in the way, like, but you said you wanted it. So what are we doing here? Um, it's that and and qualifying. So I'm I'm really big into qualifying. If they are really just a price person, I don't want to work with them. They're never great to work with. Um, they're the ones who stiff you. Like, if if you're going in and price, like we'll usually give them a few things of what's important to you, if it's communication or if it's experience, professionalism, and we'll throw price in there as a ringer. If they choose price, is like my number one concern. We'll usually just say, hey, that sounds like we might not be a fit. Here's the guy down the road who who might, you know, he's a chuck in a truck, he's probably better fit for you. And we'll we'll end it there.
SPEAKER_03:You know Chuck too? Yeah, I think he's related to Terry. Is he? Tank talk? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Some of the family reunion, right? I heard a new one last week. I hadn't heard before. It might have been uh, I can't remember anyway. Earlier before the podcast, you and I have spent uh considerable uh a considerable amount in class now and helping electricians uh already uh with some cross uh discussions. We've talked a bit about the difference between interrupt and intent marketing. Can you help us and and anyone listening just understand what that means and how this follow-up would be related to success with that?
SPEAKER_02:Sure. Yeah, I mean, and it's basic premise intent is people who want to buy now. They know they have a problem, they know they need someone to do it, they're just figuring out who. Whereas interrupt, you're going kind of down the buyer's pyramid, which is something we've talked about before. Basically, 3% of any market is looking to buy right now, 7% is open to buying. They might have the issue, they might not even know about it, but they're open to buying, they can be persuaded. And then the rest is just varying degrees of not buying. And so the people who are in that 3% are the people who uh are ready to buy right now. They're going to Google, they're typing in electrician near me, and they're just figuring out who's going to do this job. Whereas interrupt are people who are open to buying and you can kind of put it in front of them. Hey, is your breaker tripping all the time? Does your uh does the outlet blow and you plug in an extra appliance? Like they're experiencing these problems, but they might not know exactly what it is. You can teach them about that and push them into the ready to buy through education. It's a longer sales cycle, but again, we talked about 3% ready to buy now versus seven. There's twice as many of them, and there's less than half the competition because everyone's fighting over that same 3%. So those are the two differences. The difference is do they know they have a problem and are they actively searching for a solution? Or is that something you're gonna have to educate them from varying degrees along the way?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and as I hear that, I think about my own honeydew list with the number of things that I haven't uh approached yet. I just haven't scheduled them in, prioritize them, just like the electricians, maybe not following up their leads. Uh, Joe, I know that you are the ultimate crusher of tasks. So I'm gonna do the ultimate acid test by asking, are there things on your list that you have not gotten to yet that if interrupted by the right insights might actually move you along a little quicker to attack those things?
SPEAKER_03:The only thing on that list that hasn't been done is I haven't practiced my Arabic yet today, but it's okay and it's a priority. But I'm sure if something did happen that was actually critical, I would change plans and pivot. But it takes a lot to move me from my path.
SPEAKER_01:I think I have an example. I think I have an example. Humor me, Joe. You've talked about a potential home renovation that you haven't moved on. Oh, yeah. You mentioned that to me a couple times. Could that be an example of something where, hey, if the right promotion, if the right information came up, you might actually get closer to moving ahead of schedule on that.
SPEAKER_03:You know, yes, and I can even probably double down and say more onto it. If something changed in the plan, like I'm the one you're referring to is I want to create a guest suite in my home. And as a result, I'd love to have that to entertain and have family over and everything. Now it's a want, but if suddenly, let's say my mother-in-law had a concern or my family had a concern, and now it's okay, we got to accelerate the time frame. Yeah, I do have a few-year plan that I'm saving and budgeting for. But if the right person needed it, I would accelerate it immediately. So the awareness would definitely help.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I I've been talking about this one recently, so I'm just gonna throw this in. It's just a wrench, guys. We don't have to stick with it. But if a provider offered that guest suite to you at zero percent financing, what would happen then?
SPEAKER_03:I I believe it or not, um, my thing is I like to pay I like to pay things in full as much as possible, only because I try not to go into any kind of debt. But but the context there would be if I needed it and I did not have the means, then I would 100% be willing to take advantage of a zero percent plan. Sure.
SPEAKER_01:This is why uh Joe and I run a good tight ship because I will take zero percent financing for most things all day, every day. Whatever keeps capital in my pocket and stretches that inflation forward uh that I don't pay for. Anyways, we got off topic a bit. So you mentioned this buyer's pyramid forest and the 3% and the 7%. Uh that that sounds excellent. How do you take advantage of these things then in the simplest possible terms for electricians? What are my next steps? Let's say I'm following up, but hey, I've got nothing left to follow up. There's no leads to call or no calls coming in. What were your first steps with Kyle? What do you suggest are the first steps for those listening?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so first thing you want to do is max out the intent side. If they're ready to buy, you might as well take advantage of those. You want to get in in line for those people who are just searching electrician near me. The holy grail of that today is the Google My Business, the business profile there. So making sure you're filled out, verifying it, uh, ideally putting an address on there if you can. I know some people do it from their house, but if there's any way you can get a uh a marker on the map, that's gonna help you a lot because it's geographically located. Whereas if you're a service area, you're not gonna get the same exposure. You'll get some, but it's definitely diminished. Um so filling out all the products, all of the services that you do, putting up pictures, putting up the bio, like if there's a spot there, you want to fill it out. So just go all the way in and give Google all the information that they want, and then that's gonna put you in the running. Um from there, it's getting reviews. So anytime I'm working with a new company, our number one goal is how do we get to 100 reviews as fast as we can, because that's where if you hit 100, you're more than likely gonna be in that top three spot and beat out your competitors because most guys are you know a dozen, maybe 25, 30. If you get to 100, you're gonna be a standout very quickly. Now, there are guys, you know, in some bigger metros, you might have an incumbent who's got 2,000, but still there's not that many of them, and it's not like they're everywhere in the city. So you can you can kind of create your own little corner of the city that you hold down who are the people who are closest to you anyway. So those are the the first thing is really focus on the the GMB, fill it all out, and then get really dialed in on how you're getting reviews because that's the number one signaler.
SPEAKER_01:Why do you think that is? Why is it number one? What's with reviews?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I mean if if you're thinking about it from Google's perspective, they're trying to recommend the best answer. That's their whole business model is how do I give you the best answer to your question? If you're looking, your question is who's a good electrician near me? Then that's how they're answering that question. But what other markers do they have to tell if you're a good electrician or not? Like, sure, like years in business helps, you know, but like what else are you going to use to tell if they're good or not? And so the most direct uh signal for that is the positive reviews, especially in it and more so if they're recent, more so if you're getting them frequently, more so if there's pictures attached to them. Like that's what's signaling to them that you're legit and you're a good choice for them to recommend. Because think about it, like it's not really any different if you were to recommend uh you know a plumber to someone else. Let's say they need plumbing done, you're gonna recommend someone, what what are you gonna look at? You're gonna look at like, do I know them? Do other people seem to have a good experience with them? Like, think about what it's it's the same kind of premise that Google is basically recommending you to the customer, and that's what they have to use as their social currency.
SPEAKER_03:It seems like it's very heavy also in the social validation, in that the more people actually are focused on one thing, it almost creates a gravitational pull. So, like I'm sure you'll see some companies will have like 500 reviews, and then the other one underneath it will be like I've got a hundred reviews underneath that. So, why do you think some companies are so good at creating reviews and gathering reviews, whereas others just seem to be exponentially less? Good question.
SPEAKER_02:There's a very uh complicated process called asking. Ask for the review. If you don't ask, people don't know that you want one or don't think to give you one. But if you ask, they will give you one. If if you ask in a um a no-based question, they are more likely to give you one. Would you be opposed to leaving us a review? No means yes. So just little simple things like framing it is gonna be a huge favor to you, and they think, oh, like this is gonna be a big ask, and then you just say, if it only took me, it took you 20 seconds to do. So just the way you ask can make it a lot easier, and then you just it's just a numbers game, just like sales. Like you got to ask a bunch of times. You can send out text messages. Another little tweak that we like to do is we use a service called pretty links, and that's where it is like a redirect, and you can take your normal website name slash reviews, and it'll redirect your Google link. Because that Google Link, I've sent that out, and some people think it's spam before because it's just like G and a bunch of numbers, and it looks kind of weird. But if you it's like um, you know, Kyleelectric.com slash reviews, that's clean, that looks trustworthy. Okay, I get what that is. So just little things like that. But at the end of the day, you just get to ask, ask after every job. Um, we've tested a few different things with text on how to get the reviews and the Believe it or not, the the ask that works the best is the one, hey, will you leave me a review? So my boss stops asking me about it. So you know, kind of like he keeps bugging me about it. Could you leave a review? And that sympathy ask is the one that's done the best. We've tried different ones. And if if I'm the boss and I'm telling to do that, it's not like they're undercutting me. It's like I told him to do it. But that one tends to work really well. But just having them ask after every job. I mean, I know Clay, you have a whole thing about the five-star service and brighten your day, like that builds right into the script. But it one way or another, you still have to ask. That's really what it comes down to. They have a bunch of text, they're asking all the time. They probably get some kind of incentive based off of it. And that's how they build 2,500 reviews.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. It's actually built into our process to literally ask. So when you said it's a complicated thing because people darn asking, you know, you're right. You know, it's one of those moments where when someone feels uncomfortable or they don't want to ask, or they feel like there are just so many different factors where someone will feel uncomfortable because they're not doing it continuously. But once it becomes a consistent, familiar activity, it's no different than just operating on autopilot. It's like, why wouldn't you? Hey, do you mind if I ask for help with something? Okay, sure. Then go from there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's not a huge ask, it's 20 seconds, if that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I have another theory on this that I learned from uh from a mentor years ago, and he was all about doing live events in his marketplace. He loved it. And by the way, electricians can do this too. Things like generator maintenance events, I mean, these kinds of things are just starting to break through now as we realize, oh wait, video is popular. Oh, wait, people do care about this kind of educational content. But nonetheless, his theory was that after you put forth this great effort, which a sales process kind of is, right? We're following through, we're trying to listen, we're trying to use their words in the presentation, we're trying to work through objections. This is actually an endurance race to use Joe's uh best language for it. And when are we most likely to break down an endurance uh race? Near the end. And so the the shortcuts are most likely to happen near the end. So it's actually no surprise to me that uh that method also worked best for you, Forrest, because it's actually it's maybe the easiest way to say it with very little effort in a way that's like I've been punked.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's it's not me asking, it's my boss asking. Yeah, you can kind of push the blame off.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Earlier you mentioned maybe some of the bigger conglomerate companies. Uh, maybe it's private equities in your area. I mean, I've heard of these guys with 2,500, 3,000 reviews. How do we topple them? How the heck are we ever going to beat that? Cyber hacking?
SPEAKER_02:No, it's just asking more. I mean, think about it. They they did the work to get there. They got 2,500 reviews. They deserve to have that top slot. They have the most signals to Google that this is a trusted company. 2,500 people are vouching for them. Think of it like a social voting system. They're vouching for them. They do they deserve to have that slot, but it doesn't mean that they have that slot across the whole city. They might have it in their specific part of town. If you're somewhere else, you can you can take you, you know, you can become that that pillar uh for the area. But 70, you know, I think it's actually almost 80% of the traffic goes to the top three. So as long as you're in the top three, you're good. You don't have to be number one. Number one's being is is great. But I mean, a lot of times people will see that it's a large company and think, like, I don't want to go with the big guy, I'd rather go with the smaller guy. He's probably, you know, a better deal, or I can talk talk to someone more personally. Like they might pick someone just because they're not the number one guy. Because every position has a strength. You know, if you say you're the smaller guy, hey, we're friendlier, you you can talk to the owner, you know us. If you're the bigger guy, hey, we've been around for longer, we're backed, you know, we're a big company, we're legitimate. Every position has its strength. So it's less about trying to topple them and just doing the best you can with what you have. And you can always improve and beat other people relatively. Because again, if you get a hundred, you're gonna be in that top 20% with a hundred.
SPEAKER_01:People by the picture, not or by the frame, not the picture, excuse me. So you're talking about framing, reframing your position. I love that. And just by doing that, I mean, I just want to add to this if I can and say, like, our objective with premium service is to just get in the door. Just get me to the home so I can show you our difference. Right? If we're literally Service Loop Electrical, well, service loop literally means that little bit extra for future serviceability. I want to demonstrate that in every home. I don't want to just say it. I want you to feel that. I want your experience to uh resemble that so that not only will you leave a review, but do something that Google won't manage for you, which is refer and even repeat. And those are some major keys. Joe, go ahead, brother.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I love that you know you're talking about the premium service because we have the belief that we want to serve our clients before, during, and after. And something Forrest said earlier really kind of sparked that in my mind, where he was saying, you know, we're gonna continuously call 10 times. I can almost justify, like, let's say even someone gets mad, like, why are you calling? Well, I completely understand this might be frustrating, but because a service electrical, we just care about serving you before, during, and after. We wanted to showcase how we'd love to have the opportunity to serve you. Was it wrong of us to want to reach out because we got your information?
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, that reminds me of one of my favorite frames for selling is to imagine if you were to go back in time and be able to speak to yourself 10 years ago and you were giving investment advice and you're saying, hey, buy this Bitcoin or buy, you know, these this Tesla stock or whatever it is, you know it's gonna go up. How hard would you fight to get yourself to buy that 10 years ago? If you just said, hey, you should buy it, and they're like, ah, no, I don't know, would you leave it there? Or would you be like, no, I'm going to drag you here and buy this? Like, you have to buy this, like it's gonna be so good for you. How far would you be willing to go and take anything into our our uh appointments?
SPEAKER_03:I'd literally black MM myself and just be like, listen, like like I know you, and unless you do this, we're gonna do some stuff. So go buy the stuff, empty the bank account. I know the routing number, I know your social security, let's make it happen.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Because you believe in it, you know it's gonna work, you believe in it. You go very, very far, quick, the end of the end of the uh earth to make that happen. If we believe in our service that much, we should be doing at least half as much as that.
SPEAKER_01:Tully agree. Great perspective. So let's say you're the little guy listening to this, or even medium guy, but your reviews aren't uh multiple hundreds yet, and you are looking up at triple towers, you got three big guys around you, just to take this to the ultimate ridiculousness here. Um, and you said top three is so important. Am I screwed in that position, or what would you do then first?
SPEAKER_02:So there's two ways to get to the top of Google. You could earn your way, like we talked about with reviews and being around for a long time, or you can buy your way. So you can buy your way with uh Google Local Service Ads is the one that I recommend. You can use AdWords, but unless you got three grand minimum of spend a month to be able to do that, don't worry about them. It's that's for the bigger guys. Uh, there's other stuff we can do before that. So the Google Local Service Ads, it's a little bit to get set up. You're gonna have to submit insurance, you gotta do a background check, you gotta connect it to your account. But anytime I see a hurdle like that, I just think, who are all the other guys who didn't want to do this and be bothered? You know, Chuck, like we talked about earlier, he's not gonna do this. So that's keeping them out. Um, but it's a good way to get good leads. And I'm sure it's different for each market, but for us, they're around 40 to 50 bucks a lead, which is excellent. And those are still high intent. So it's the people who pop up at the top of the map, um, and those are the ones who are getting it. So you're actually above the people who organically rank, but you have to pay to be there.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm, really good. And you mentioned uh AdWords and local service ads. What's the difference between the two? Why does one cost so much more?
SPEAKER_02:The AdWords is like the keyword-based ones. So, you know, if someone types in electrician near me, then you're gonna try to rank for that. Um, like other services use it too, like even like uh Amazon or online stores could uh go for those. Whereas the local service ads is particular to like maps and literally local services that are there. They have different categories. Um, and we've run into you know clients who try to get in, but the category is kind of wonky, like people who do concrete coding and they're stuck in being floors and it just doesn't work for them. But with electricians, we have our own category. So we're square, and you just say uh what services you want to do, because they kind of pick what service they want, and then they'll they'll literally call you. Some of our mess are messages, but it's mostly calls and they're high intent leads. I think that's our number one channel for for sales. We spend about six thousand a month on it, and we get you know forty to sixty thousand in business. I'll take that ideal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that you know what? That's a great place to ask that. I mean, obviously you guys are doing that. Is that what you expect for a return on that investment or or better, worse? How do you gauge that?
SPEAKER_02:That's always my target is 10 to 1. If I'm getting 10 to 1, that's good because you know we're shoot typically operating on a 50% gross. So 10 to 1 keeps us profitable. If we can get better, awesome. Um, but typically if you get really good, you're gonna increase this the uh the spend, which is then gonna dilute the performance. So we'll typically hover around that 10 to one.
SPEAKER_01:All right, very good. So LSA, you're paying for the phone call, uh, the ad words, pay-per-click, uh, gets a little dangerous every click. And and of course, if uh this is something I've learned over the years is if what they click on doesn't lead them to what they expect, they're gone and you paid anyway. You agree with that?
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Yeah, whereas with the local services, they they pay when uh when they call. You're paying for the call. And if it's something like we get a lot of people who apply it through uh for jobs through that, we can say, hey, this person was applying for the job, not looking for that, and they'll actually refund it.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. So you can get a prospective employee for free. Nice.
SPEAKER_02:Usually we're like kind of mad, like, hey, bro, you know we pay for these, right? Like you're costing us money. It's not a good way to come in the door.
SPEAKER_01:Stop calling.
SPEAKER_02:Send an email, get a year of experience.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so Google, we've talked about a couple aspects of this. Uh, where do you go next?
SPEAKER_02:So I would just start increasing that spend. Um, you know, if you got to start around$250,$300 a week, you get to pick your how much you want to spend for Google. And you don't always spend what you say you're willing to spend. So sometimes, like for the plumbing one that we have, it's it's really tight out there. There's just not a lot of leads at the moment. And so we're saying that we're willing to spend uh, I think like$4,000 a week, and we only spend like maybe$400 at most. So you set it and then it's based off of what is available. So set a decent spend. Um, like I said, we're doing around$6,000, but you could start smaller. I'd say, you know, try to put a thousand bucks towards marketing. A good rule of thumb, we talked about 10 to 1, but also if you do the math backwards, then that means you're spending 10% of your revenue on marketing, which I think is a pretty good rule of thumb. If you're smaller, it might be more towards 15, especially if you want to be aggressive towards growth. If you're bigger, it might dip down closer to eight, but you want to be somewhere eight to fifteen percent of your revenue should go back into marketing. That's your growth.
SPEAKER_01:Makes sense. All right. Really good insights. Really good insights. Thank you for that. If you're dealing with someone bigger that's coming to you, they're not new to business, they've been around for a number of years, they're already broken through seven figures, maybe even got close to a$2 million a year, let's say. Um, but seeing some recession in their growth, some stagnance, how do you typically approach uh working with someone and helping them with a strategy for us?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I mean, if you've tapped out all the intent and now you want to move over to the interrupt, it's gonna take a little bit more time and effort, but it's a much bigger opportunity because again, remember it's 3% versus 7%, and everyone's going for the three. So that's what typically we'll start to bring in like meta ads and some YouTube ads. And that's where you got to get on the camera and shoot some ads, write some scripts, edit the videos and put them up there. And it's a huge opportunity because if you are one of those bigger guys and you got deep pockets, say you're backed by private equity and you can spend$30,000 a month on ads, then if you want more ads, then you just spend more money. It's easy. It's just literally you type in and say, I want to spend this much instead of the one how much I did before. And that's what bids up the clicks and why, you know, for a lot of these things, it's$100 a click. And if you convert one out of two, you're talking about$200 just to get there for one lead. So what we can then do is use that buried entry of having to make the creative, is what we call it, like the ads. And that's gonna filter out a lot of guys who just don't want to do it. So then we're creating these, and I layer the ads into three tiers. It's the the stages of awareness. It's the problem awareness, then the solution awareness, then the product awareness. And you're thinking, what is that? So problem awareness is you got to get them to know they have a problem. They're not gonna buy anything if they don't even know there's an issue. So uh we do a lot with panel upgrades because that's a it's an easy one. You know, if they don't know that they have an issue, you're saying, like, hey, are you did you just get a uh are you getting a kitchen renovation or did you just get a renovation and now your uh breakers are are blowing all the time? Well, maybe you overloaded your panel. And so we just got to throw out some different scenarios to talk about the problems. If your breakers are tripping, um, like what whatever the symptoms of the problem are, we want to call those out and get and all we want them to think is, oh, I wonder if I have that. I wonder if my uh a good example is the the Zinsco panels. So those are uh a known fire hazard that people don't even realize. So we just get them to think, oh, I wonder if I have a federal Pacific panel that I need to change out. And then they go down and look, they're like, oh, you know what? This is the same one from 1972. And says Zinsco, my insurance company isn't even gonna cover me if I have a fire. So just getting them to think that, and then we're gonna say, hey, here's what we do. We do the whole panel upgrade in a day, you leave for work, by the time you're back, it's done. We got the backup generator, like all the things about the solution is the solution awareness. Teach them about that. And then the last one, product awareness, is just the the company. Hey, we got you know 170 five-star reviews, we've been around for 15 years, uh, you know, we really care. Like, you know, that's your pitch to about yourself. What a lot of people do is they jump first to the pitch about yourself because that's what they want to talk about. But if they don't know they have a problem and that there's a solution available, then they're just like, good for you, you know, swipe next. Like, I don't care. Like, I'm I'm happy for you, you have a nice company, but I don't need you. But if you take them through that whole thing, it's gonna take more time because you got to educate them. But the nice thing about that is if you're the one who educated them and taught them about this problem they had and that you could do a solution, who's the obvious choice to hire when they get it done? They just spent that time with you. You just provide that value to them, you're the person they're gonna call. And so we we structure those different campaigns. There's, you know, we can get into the technical parts of it if we want to about how there's different objectives of the campaigns, but essentially we're trying to walk them through, and that's how we're getting uh for Kyle Electric, we get panel leads for$24 for a$10,000 average ticket.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Um, probably got the 10-10 rule working for you there, then to do that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And the nice thing about those is since they are earlier in the stage, they have a little bit longer shelf life. If you think about the intent versus the interrupt, if they want it done now and you don't answer, they're calling the next guy and getting it done the next day. But with these ones, if you you know say it takes you a little bit longer to get to them, they're still early on, you still got some time on it. So they have a little longer shelf life, which is nice. But it doesn't mean that you're gonna take that for granted and not call them. We still have the rule of 10.
SPEAKER_01:And to add the other 10 in there, are you suggesting that you're seeing uh a 10x return on that ad spend or better than from those ads?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, typically they will book about the same, but they don't close about the same because they're earlier on, they don't they like the people who want to buy now typically have an idea of what it's gonna cost. So they're you know, whereas the people you're educating them, we're not talking about pricing the ads. So it could be a sticker shock or not what they had in mind. So it takes a little bit longer to get those, but yeah, it's it's around 10.
SPEAKER_01:Longer sales cycle. There's also this idea, this concept of uh kind of awareness marketing. And you touched on that when you said problem aware, but not necessarily brand aware. And I think that's a massive piece that really needs to be highlighted here. Again, I had a mentor tell me about this earlier in in my uh coaching career, and he said, Look, you're not Coca-Cola, you're not Pepsi. You can't just say your name and have people understand what the message is as much as they do, right? You can't just put on a Santa Claus suit, jump on a semi, and shoot a video, and everyone understands that, hey, we need to call clay for electrical service. That's not the way it works. So I love about what you said is really putting the problem up front. And I think this is one of the biggest gaps in industry, in any marketing, in any service, even, you know, not just electricians, it's everywhere. Like this is almost a pandemic. We have to say something specific about what's going on so they understand. So I really wanted to highlight that. Uh, you talk about a bit of a signature method, uh, I believe you call it your four-part growth machine forest. Um, could you explain that? What do you mean by that? What is this signature method?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so it's more of a general business more than encompassing than just the marketing. Um, but that's kind of what I'm coming in and doing when I work with uh the companies when we come in. Like, for instance, uh Andy, we did a uh consulting for equity deal where he gave us a percentage of the business. And me and my team and partner came in and helped him grow the whole thing. So it's a little bit different arrangement than clients who we're just doing marketing for. But that's the the whole business arrangement is to dial in the marketing, then we hire the people, then we build the systems, then we get out of the way. Those are the four items. So start with the marketing, we got to get leads coming in. Uh, more leads means we're gonna need more people to be able to do those jobs. So we have a whole uh hiring system, which we could probably do a full episode about. But my whole thesis is that hiring and and recruiting is really just marketing, but for employees. So your job ads are just like ads you would run for customers. Your sales appointment is just an interview. You're selling them on working for you. It's the same thing trying to get them retained, it's really like a mirror image. Um, but so we we work on that with with getting them. And one thing I like to talk about is that I hear a lot people say that no one wants to work anymore and they can't find good people. And my response is a little kind of tongue in cheek, is it no, you don't want to do the work. You don't want to work anymore because there's a lot of work that goes into getting these people. And so if you're not getting in the work to get the applicants, then it's no wonder that you can't find anyone. But that's not their fault, that's yours. And so it's just the same way that we know how many leads we need to get turns into how many appointments, turns into how many jobs. It's the same thing with how many candidates turns into how many interviews, turns into how many hires. And if you don't know what those numbers are, then you're always gonna struggle to hire.
SPEAKER_01:I do think that definitely warrants a second episode, and we should go deeper on that for sure. Joe, go ahead, brother.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was just gonna touch, you know, because you had mentioned like some people claim that no one wants to work anymore. And one of the trends that I've noticed is that every generation that comes thinks the following generation is lazy. And I actually looked into this and I was able to track it all the way to like the 1910s, and there were literally like newspaper articles about how lazy people in the 1930s were, and then from 1930 to 1950, oh, they were so lazy, and they just kept going every 15 to 20 years. So we're just in a cyclical cycle. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's just it's just the nature of humans. We all think that the the young people are lazy, just usually because they do things differently, they just don't do the same. So we think, oh, you're being lazy, but they might just have a better way. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. We're running out of time for this one, guys. Uh, we have to wrap this one up. But Forrest, if anyone wants to get a hold of you and grab a complimentary strategy call or just learn more about what you're doing or Kyle Electric or any of it, what's the best way to get a hold of you, brother?
SPEAKER_02:Sure. So I actually created a page for you guys. It's uh topline-growth.com slash SLE. So uh depending on uh there is a question or two or two in there for qualification, but I think most of the people who are watching this show will be fine. But I I do do one-on-one whiteboard kind of strategy sessions where we'll figure out what we can do, like what you need to do to get to the next level, whether that's marketing or that's hiring or whatever it is, I do free sessions just because it's fun to hear and be able to help people. If there's something in there that you want, like uh the thing that I always say is that I'm willing to give all the recipes away for free. And the only time that I charge is when I have to cook. So if we get together, you find something you want to run with it and implement, awesome. If you say, hey, I want you to cook and take care of it, we can talk about that later. But um, that's it. So topline-growth.com slash SLE.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much, man. And we appreciate that attitude. As you guys know, we've been giving for three years now. Season three of this podcast, the first season, we did 250 episodes Monday to Friday, back to back to back, live from our Facebook group. At season two, we grew up a little bit there, did more great interviews, more great industry experts, and had a ton of fun. And now we're back for season three. You guys are gonna want to buckle up because we have more value than ever, more ways for you guys to engage than ever before, including our newly public app, the SLE Pro app, which we want to get you guys on. Details down below on this podcast. Thank you guys so much for us. Looking forward to going into this again with recruiting. Uh, have a wonderful day, everyone. Take care, be blessed.
